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Do you hear me justifying the crimes of my ancestors? What is your point exactly? Why don't you just say outright that you support oppression and brutalization of others when it serves your ends? Get a grip skeek.
When my country does something that I don't believe in, I don't defend it. Wrong is wrong and patriotism is no excuse for condoning immoral behavior. If you want to be a Stalinist robot, that is your prerogative.
Now here is a question for you. Why is Tibet a threat to China? Are we asked to believe that this tiny nation is a security threat to a nation of one billion people? Under what twisted logic is this being considered? I guess those Tibetans must really be some dangerous hombres with all that praying they do.
You show your ignorance by calling Tibet a "tiny nation." It is not. As I have said, it has been a part of China for more than 800 years. That does not make it a threat. The threat comes from countries, primarily yours or those in your country's service, using both Tibet and Taiwan as opportunities to attack China. I believe I have spelt out the evidence of this clearly enough should you care to read more thoroughly.
Shall I call Hawaii a "tiny nation" and ask you why are you so threatened that you cannot grant it independence?
America has seized on the opportunity of using a disgruntled Dalai Lama, in order to seek to demonise China. The Dalai Lama has allowed this willingly hoping that one day your government will reinstate him as king. He's happily taken paychecks from the CIA while waiting for that day.
Only in America would anyone still use in 2008 such terminology as "Stalinist robot." I suppose you still think there are communists hiding under your bed too. You show your age, your nationality and your inability to keep up with the times in using it.
"...a question like, "When did the Chinese first invade Tibet?" is an oxymoron. The fallacy is comparable to a hypothetical question: "When did Native Americans invade Navajo or Apache tribal lands? " In America, you have Navajo, Cherokee, Choctaw, Sioux, Chippewa, Apache, etc. In Zhong Guo, they have Han, Hui, Mian, Zang, Zhuangâ; about 50 plus ethnicities living on the land called the Middle Kingdom."
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200...
Hmmmm, your showing a bigoted side. "Only in America" indeed! Shame on you for generalizing in such a manner, it only shows a shallow intellect! I have friends from multiple nations and I've heard terms similar to that many times, even from the younger generation who were still babies while the USSR existed!
I guess it depends on which circles you move in. I can say with absolute honesty that the only time I hear such terms thrown about in a derisive and insulting manner it has always come from an American. It's not a prejudice; it's an observation.
I speak with a few people from the UK. Some from Sweden. The area I live in has about ten percent Asian population, alot of that from China or Korea. We have a decently sized Arabic population as well. Anti-communism still exists. Its no wonder after the last six decades. Its only to be expected and I doubt it will die out soon. However a populist feeling does exist in the United States at this time and its fairly powerful. I'm waiting to see what happens with health care. If a new policy is implemented I'd like the WHO organization to recompile its results. I'm interested to see if the US will drop from its number one slot in "Quality" or keep it the same and see what happens in fairness.
If Hawaii voted for independence, I would not oppose it. My patriotism is defined by an adherence to the principals of democracy and the rights of self determination and not some ego trip about how big our country is. Obviously you don't feel the same way. I am not buying your assertion that Tibet is fighting for independence only because of outside agitators. Its a seperate and distinct culture for which the Chinese government has shown little to no respect. You can try to spin this all night, but at the end of the day its all bull crap. Your defending oppression and tyranny. Just be honest about it. The crimes of America don't excuse those of China so you are wasting your time pointing out the historical wrongs of my country. I have a lot of gripes with America and don't labor under any delusions about our own perfection. But to say we attack you is silly at best. How? By granting MFN status. By importing billions worth of Chinese products? I'd say you're paranoid and delusional.
I'm defending oppression and tyranny? No I'm defending a nation that I may not agree with but I will defend it if I see it victimised by a hypocritical nation that is itself, the world's primary tyrant. As for your democracy, your last two federal elections exposed exactly how mythical that is in the abstract and how dysfunctional it is in practise. To call me paranoid and delusional is rich when your country euphemistically calls wars of aggression 'pre-emptive' and thinks everybody wants to be like you.
I don't know what the acronym MFN stands for.
You don't buy my assertions of outside influences, why? Because those outside influences happen to be your country? Try this then.
World News Briefs; Dalai Lama Group Says It Got Money From C.I.A.
Published: October 2, 1998
The Dalai Lama's administration acknowledged today that it received $1.7 million a year in the 1960's from the Central Intelligence Agency, but denied reports that the Tibetan leader benefited personally from an annual subsidy of $180,000.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=...
Behind Dalai Lama's holy cloak
Michael Backman
May 23, 2007
The government set up in exile in India and, at least until the 1970s, received $US1.7 million a year from the CIA.
The money was to pay for guerilla operations against the Chinese, notwithstanding the Dalai Lama's public stance in support of non-violence, for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989.
The Dalai Lama himself was on the CIA's payroll from the late 1950s until 1974, reportedly receiving $US15,000 a month ($US180,000 a year).
http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/behind-d...
The primary protest group at the relay has been Reporters Without Border. The name suggests a progressive, possibly left-wing group of independent journalists, right? Wrong. They're funded by the US government backed NED and the Free Cuba Center, the latter created by US secret services and funded by USAID. In short, the Pro-Tibetan protests are staged and US government funded. This is according to Canadian think tank, Global Research.
http://www.china.org.cn/china/Lhasa_Unrest/2008...
If the CIA and other such nefarious government groups, designed to sabotage and subvert, are able to exploit terrorist militia in various parts of the world, what makes you think you or any homegrown liberal thinker be any tougher a nut to crack and use for other agendas?
I am not the United States, and yes, you are defending tyranny and oppression. You can't weasel your way out of this one. The wrongs of America don't justify the wrongs of China in Tibet. Just be honest. I know its a stretch for you. You defend tyranny and oppression because your love of country exceeds your love of principle. There can be no other explanation.
I don't support pre-emptive war. Why do you keep evading the point? MFN is most favored nation. Now skeek, get some sleep. You're beginning to annoy me. I suspect you are an agent of China. You're paid to fulfill a propaganda function. I understand. Everyone has to eat and pay bills. But if you don't mind a little advice. You're wasting your time. You can't polish a turd. China invaded Tibet in 1951. They signed an agreement that claimed to respect the cultural integrity of Tibet and proceeded to violate it. This, and not the CIA is what started the Tibetan rebellion. Now you need your rest and your meds. Good Night.
Forever thinking from an American point of view, Hanyman? Haven't you ever heard of time zones? Not everything in this world runs on America's time. You have summed up precisely what I'm trying to point out here -- USA-centricity. Everything revolves around you.
I know China has done many wrongs. I believe your country has done far more and continues to do so without remorse except for its own losses and pains. I also believe many of those 'wrongs' you believe China has done are also fabricated or greatly exaggerated, most especially by your country. My apologies if this 'annoys' you.
And I am most definitely not paid to fulfill a propaganda function. I feel passionately about what I write here because, being a Westerner, I once thought like you but have come to understand through experience the Chinese point of view, and I have found it makes a lot of sense. Far more sense than the simplistic indoctrination of China Bad, America Good. That's typical American bullsh*t.
As opposed to what? Who doesn't have a point of view? I must remind you again, I am not the USA. What amuses me, however, is that you have wasted so much of your time and effort arguing with me. In the end, my opinion is of little consequence. USA centricity? I suppose you are just swimming in a sea of non-aligned humanity. Your opinions free from bias? Save it for the intellectually stunted. Objectivity doesn't exist within the human species. Skeek, you are amateur hour to me.
Now for time zones. Since you are such an expert. What is the reason for leap year? How long is an actual year in excess of 365 days. What is the Prime Meridian? why is it straight, and why is the international date line staggered? I have crawled all over this globe and visited many time zones. For example, Baghdad is in the same one as Moscow. Bangkok is 16 hours ahead of mine, but they don't utilize daylights savings time so half the year they are only 15 hours different but still 16 zones removes.
You claim to be a westerner who has embraced the wisdom of China. Would you care to elaborate on this? Which part? All. Communism? Maoism? Buddhism? Confucianism? Capitalism? There is no ism to which I would give my total allegiance. You have gone to great lengths to defend tyranny and oppression but are unwilling to be frank about your positions. Instead of defending their purpose, you attempt to misdirect me with allegations that America has done so also or done so more without justifying their use in China. I am sorry, but I won't and can't be distracted by such infantile tactics. You can't defend Chinas actions in Tibet without being honest and just saying that you want China to win regardless of whether they are right or not. At least then I could have a modicum of respect for your position. Your tactics aren't working, okay. We can post a thousand more times and the conclusion won't change. Admit you are a sinophile and the move on.
Sinophile? Of course. I wasn't aware that it should be something I should have to confess to or that it should also be a source of shame. In this context, however, it doesn't surprise me in the least, given the high level of vilification of China by America or the amount of hatred spewed out on these threads towards China by otherwise well-meaning Americans who can't think critically or freely for themselves.
Now if you can admit to your sinophobia we can call it even.
I am neither sinophile nor sinophobic. I have no blind love for my country or any other. That is the difference between you and me. As for spewing. Plenty of people in this forum spew contempt for our own government or haven't you noticed? There is far more conspicuous dissent in this country than in China. We have a free press and are allowed to criticize our country without fear of imprisonment. Last I checked, Chinese citizens enjoyed no such freedom. So please be a man about this and confess your love of tyranny and oppression outright rather than using "you do it worse or you do it too". That is all your arguments add up to.
To cast me in a role I have denied and argued with facts against is your choice. Stick with what you know. I'm sure you must feel safer that way.
Hanyman,
you wrote, "If Hawaii voted for independence, I would not oppose it."
What if this were financed by an intelligence agency of another country that tries to put their payee as head and does so by causing riots and wounding and killing innocent Americans? Will you say yes to that?