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Gaza City Goes Dark After Power Cut »

Posted By TechnologyExpert 8 months, 3 weeks ago in News

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Gaza City was plunged into darkness Sunday after Israel blocked the shipment of fuel that powers its only electrical plant in retaliation for persistent rocket attacks by Gaza militants.

Read Full Story at breitbart.com »

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Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago

From the article:
>> "We have the choice to either cut electricity on babies in the maternity ward or heart surgery patients or stop operating rooms," Gaza Health Ministry official Dr. Moaiya Hassanain said.
Well, not exactly. The people of Gaza also have the choice to convince their leaders to live in peace with their Israeli neighbors.
>> A defiant Hamas said its attacks on Israel would not cease because of the sanctions.
>> "We will not raise the white flag, and we will not surrender, " Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said Sunday.
Oops! Apparently, attacking Israel is preferable for democratically elected Palestinian leadership in Gaza over both the babies in the maternity ward or heart surgery patients. If this is the case, it's NOT Israel that should be blamed for the results

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  Daylight8 months, 3 weeks ago
  
  Thinker22
  Oops! Apparently, attacking Israel is preferable for democratically elected Palestinian leadership in Gaza over both the babies in the maternity ward or heart surgery patients. If this is the case, it's NOT Israel that should be blamed for the results
  Oops! Who says that Israel is a legitimate country which oppress and occupy Palestine? people who support this illegal entity must come forward to send them back to the countries they came from. These Zionist are an obstacle to peace among the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Hamas has the right to attack Israel because Israel is an occupier and also they build settlements everyday, they don't stop at that they oppress Palestinians everyday with the support of America, Britain and the Europe. The Israelis are illegal immigrants, the Palestinians must be given the right to decide on their fate, if they don't want the Israel in their territory they must be asked to leave, to the same destination from where they came.
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    walden38 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    Where do you live? Why don't you move back to where your DNA originated? Where might that be?
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      idov8 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      To Daylight.
      Two way sword friend. The so-called Arabs who have been there for 150 years, and they are only a corporal's guard, were the products of Turkish imperialism-colonialism. Most of them came in from Bosnia. A lot of Egyptians flooded in when the British arrived, but they are only guest workers, since they've been camping there for less than 100 years. We'll send the whole lot back to Bosnia and let them sort it out. The day of imperalism-colonialism is over, Turkey is gone, so they are nothing more than illegal squatters with no daddy. Israel has a right to attack Hamas because Hamas is the occupier on behalf of the squatters. I agree the Palestinian "Arabs" must be given the right to self-determination but in Bosnia, where they came from. I just knew you'd see the light of reason. Problem solved.
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        AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        idov ~
        150 years?? I fear someone is shading the truth or has been
        misinformed about how many years Arabs have existed in Palestine.
        From:
        http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHi...
        The Arab conquests: 7th century AD:
        The great Christian cities of Syria and Palestine fall to the Arabs in rapid succession from AD 635. Damascus, in that year, is the first to be captured. Antioch follows in 636. And 638 brings the greatest prize of all, in Muslim terms, when Jerusalem is taken after a year's siege.
        Or:
        From the uber-neocon,Daniel Pipes,
        "The Year the Arabs Discovered Palestine":
        by Daniel Pipes
        Jerusalem Post
        September 13, 2000
        "In fact, the Palestinian identity goes back, not to antiquity, but precisely to 1920. No "Palestinian Arab people" existed at the start of 1920 but by December it took shape in a form recognizably similar to today's."
        
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        idov8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Oh well when you have been in a place as long we have, 4,000 years, you sort of lose track of when every Johnny-come-lately moves into the neighborhood. Psst I wasn't trying to be serious just trying be as ridiculous as this guy.
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        That is right. Muhammad started a war of aggression to conquer the world. They went as far as France and were stopped at Tours. They went as far as Vienna and were stopped. They went over the north Africa and down into parts of southern Africa. They went east into India. The offer was to convert, Pay a large extra tax or die. That was the example set by Muhammad in Medina and that is what the Palestinians are doing now. Following the example of Muhammad.
        Particular people did however come from the places indicated. The surrounding Muslim countries did however create the Palestinian problem by refusing to allow them into their countries and live there. Jews have always lived there as well. Something that people quite often overlook.
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        AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Endoscopy ~
        I'm almost speechless - lol.
        What in the heck were the Crusades doing there?
        Was that the first attempt to bring Liberty & Democracy to
        the Middle East - you know, liberate them from their resources
        AND their lives??
        Tell me when you - out of fairness - start packing your bags
        to leave and give this land back to our Native Americans?
        You know - the rightful owners.
        
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Crusades. Your ignorance is showing. The emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire) wrote two letters to the Pope requesting military aid to help defend itself against the people attacking it. Guess who that was? Islam on its great 1000 year expansion. The Muslims had taken Spain, Africa, The Middle East and were expanding into the Eastern Roman Empire taking it piece by piece. The Muslims were turned back at the Battle of Tours in 732. They would not be ejected from Spain until 1492. They attacked off and on Italy and Greece. At about the time of the letters the Muslims were capturing people going on Pilgrimages and either stripping them of everything or killing them and taking everything.
        Europe was in a pincer movement by the Muslims. Instead of just some Military aid the Europeans sent an army to hit at the center of Islam. Sound military strategy.
        
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        ROFLMAO
        " Tell me when you - out of fairness - start packing your bags to leave and give this land back to our Native Americans?"
        I'll tell my multiracial children that they have to cut themselves in parts. The Black part can go to Africa, The Caucasian part can go to Europe and The Indian part can go to Asia since the Indians came here through Alaska.
        You ignore the fact that many Jews have lived in Israel for 4000 years. Many came back there in the last 300 years. After Hitler and his final solution most European Jews left to go to Israel. They had had enough of Europe. Nobody was kicked out or displaced at this time. There was room for everybody. The British tried but failed to keep them out. When the UN created the countries there they made a Jewish dominated country of Israel. Jordan and other Muslim countries were created as well.
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        The Palestinians left of their own accord after being told to by the surrounding Muslim countries. They were told that after the Jews were pushed into the sea and were killed there they would be able to take what they wanted. The war of 1948 failed. The Jews were able to keep part of what they were given. In 1967 they took back what they lost and more. I never hear any crying about what Israel lost in 1948. Why?
        The Muslim countries refused to take in their brother Muslims they told to leave Israel. Why?
        Why do you think that the Palestinians are created by what Israel did and not the fact that they were created by the Muslim Governments in 1948?
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        This has been known to be a lie for decades endo. Why do you keep repeating so many zionist lies?
        The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
        Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East
        ...Arab orders to evacuate non-existent
        "The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) monitored all Middle Eastern broadcasts throughout 1948. The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British Museum. There was not a single order or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine, from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is a repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put." Erskine Childers, British researcher, quoted in Sami Hadawi, "Bitter Harvest."
        http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.h...
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Nice argument endoscopy! If someone steals your house, the neighbors are responsible for lookling after you!
        In the end this argument boils down to:
        Anyone who likes can steal jewish property anywhere in the world - after all the jews can go to israel.
        Sorry endo, but INDIVIDUALS not ideologies have rights.
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        You keep ignoring the right of Israel to exist.
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Why should a religious discriminatory state based on the ethnic cleansing of over 7 million christians and moslems have a right to exist as a racist state?
        Keep in mind that jews are only 35% of the population of Palestine. What would your reaction be if catholics in america began robbing, killing, expelling or putting in concentration camps the majority population of america AND then claimed that they had the right to exist as the nation of america? Not so different from what israel claims - don't forget that israel even discriminates against the strains of judaism that are the majority in the US.
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > "In fact, the Palestinian identity goes back, not to antiquity, but precisely to 1920. No "Palestinian Arab people" existed at the start of 1920 but by December it took shape in a form recognizably similar to today's."
        Interestingly enough, neither Mr. Pipes nor anyone else knew about the "Palestinians" as a people prior to the late 1960. If it was not the case at least ONE book or article would be published about them, their unique "Palestinian" culture and their history as a recognizable "Palestinian" ethnic entity.
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    x00000000098 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    Nothing wrong with a democratic elected government, but when that government abuses its power and takes over their own country from any opposition (in this case Abbas) then that is no democracy. Seems to me that we have three states over there now. Israel, Palestine (West bank), And whatever the armed militia controlled Gaza strip should be called (not Palestine). I don't see why the Palestinians don't realize that; hay wait, they are doing this to themselves by envoking a endless war that can't be won, get rid of the ones in their own territory running the show, and start working on making what they have better. In stead of constantly blaming their neighbors for their problems and trying to take from them.
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  browntiger8 months, 3 weeks ago
  
  I don't understand who pays for this fuel, electricity....
  I very much doubt that palestinians.... If Israel, they nutz. I would cut off any services. If UN, EU or any arab nations wants to pay - take it of own budget.
  Hammas seems to have way to much money....
  
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    gamahuche8 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    Sorry, this comment above seems to have lost its path and to have become incomprehensible..
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    Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    > Hammas seems to have way to much money....
    The fact is that Hamas has enough money to acquire those missiles they shoot into Israel as well as thousands of automatic rifles and millions of bullets for them. Enough to shoot tens of thousands of those rounds into air at every occasion... but they do not have money to pay for water, electricity and other basic services.
    As I (and Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri) said it's all a matter of preferences.
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  AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
  
  Thinker22 ~
  We wouldn't want to let the other side of the story intrude.
  On CNN not moments ago - their report from Jerusalem about Gaza - the one time only opening of the checkpoint to allow humanitarian supplies (oil, medicine,etc.) is being brought about because of global pressure on the Israeli government.
  Also - that Israeli citizens in Sderot and other affected communities are applying pressure for the Israeli government to do something to halt the firing of the rockets.
  How about Hamas' offer of a ceasefire in June 2006?
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5082820.stm
  Or ANOTHER ceasefire offer December 2007 which Israel refused to even discuss?
  http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/937196.html
  
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    walden38 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    I looked at your two links-
    The first from the BBC quotes the Israeli military, 'when it is quiet, we will respond with quiet.' Also in the article, "Since the deaths, Hamas has fired dozens of home-made rockets at Israel, causing panic and several injuries."
    The second from Haaretz states that the Israeli government won't negotiate with Hamas until Hamas recognizes Israel's right to exist. Would you negotiate with those who don't even acknowledge your right to be?
    In the past when Israel has agreed to ceasefires the terror groupo have used the ceasefire as an opportunity to regroup and rearm.
    
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      AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      Walden ~
      Re: the right to exist stipulation
      From what I have read - Hamas asked many times exactly
      what boundaries they would be agreeing to accept -
      geographically - and Israel would NOT say.
      So, agreeing to Israel's right to exist, without a
      definition of the boundaries, could have meant that Hamas
      was accepting the post-1967 war boundaries or anything else
      Israel decided to enter. Haniyeh was elected by the
      Palestinians - need I say in Democratic elections that the
      Carter Center monitored - as their leader. What kind of
      leader would sign on to such an agreement? Unlike Abbas,
      he is a leader that would rather fight than sign away the
      property rights of his people.
      I do not believe Israel wants a ceasefire OR a two-state
      solution and they have been extremely sucessful in
      controlling the news we get here about the particulars.
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        The main sticking point in any negotiation with any Muslim government or movement is the following. The little fact that none of them are willing to say that Israel has a right to exist.
        The boundaries laid out by the UN were blown away by the immediate attack on Israel. The Muslim countries took a lot of land at that time. The 67 war got that back. Now people want to ignore that the Arabs took land but are upset that they lost it. Explain that one away.
        When will the Muslims accept Israel? The answer is never. Their religious books, the Sunnah, give them no choice.
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        walden38 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        So it's not as plain as Hamas offering a ceasefire aye?
        
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        AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        walden3 ~
        Is that to me? If so, I would say a ceasefire would be a good starting point for either side. Then they could work on further "joint projects" - if it holds. What could possibly be wrong with that? A cessation of hostilities would be a good foundation.
        Remember when ALL the Arab nations denied Israel's right to exist? That changed years ago. Saying the words, didn't mean
        that they were going to do family picnics together but it
        had been a real sticking point - and it changed. Unlike
        Endoscopy's "never" - some nations have already changed
        their behavior.
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > Remember when ALL the Arab nations denied Israel's right to exist? That changed years ago.
        Oh yes. It changed when President of Egypt decided to make peace with Israel. He was ABLE AND WILLING to do it and Israel immediately accepted the Arab peace offer. A similar story happened when King of Jordan followed the Egyptian example. The same will happen when any Arab state will declare its willingness to sign a peace agreement with Israel. Israel did not and will not refuse.
        On the other hand, Israel CAN NOT make the Arabs peaceful if they're unable or unwilling to be peaceful. As long as the Palestinian Arabs and their leaders are willing the war to continue it will continue.
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        I have been doing some studying about Islam. What it believes in the religious books they accept. They are taught to deceive the non-Muslim. They are taught that any government that does not have Sharia law is oppressing their people. They are taught that Islam will inevitably conquer the world. They believe that there is a no peace until this happens.
        Traditionally they conquer an area and people have the following three choices; convert, pay an extra special tax and be subjugated, or die. Failure to pay the tax gives the person the choice of the other two.
        No Muslim can ignore these beliefs for very long. Egypt and Jordan got burned bad in war. They will wait until they are assured of an overwhelming victory. Then they will turn.
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > Egypt and Jordan got burned bad in war. They will wait until they are assured of an overwhelming victory. Then they will turn.
        I have no doubts about that. This means that Israel (and the rest of the world) will have to assure that no victory will be in sight for them. Thanks to the former Soviet Union Egypt already has a built-in self-destruction device that will be triggered by Israel in case Egyptian leaders will decide to attack Israel again and if there will be no other way to bring Egypt back where it belongs.
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        "I would say a ceasefire would be a good starting point for either side."
        Since the time and example of Muhammad the only reason that Muslims agree to anything is to give themselves time to reorganize and rearm for another attempt to conquer the opposition. Their history declares this loud and clear. Muhammad made treaties with the three tribes of Jews in Medina. As early as possible he broke the treaties with each one in turn expelling two tribes with only that they could carry and beheading the men and making slaves of the women and children of the third. Always on some small pretext that a few people possibly did something.
        Read their religious books of the Sunnah, the Koran, Hadith, and the biography of Muhammad.
        This is their ideal and religion. They are not good Muslims if they do not conform. That is the sticking point. They believe the prophet spoke so they do it.
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > So, agreeing to Israel's right to exist, without a
        definition of the boundaries, could have meant that Hamas
        was accepting the post-1967 war boundaries or anything else
        Israel decided to enter.
        This is a blatant lie. The Hamas Charter (as well as the Palestinian Charter) explicitly state that a Jewish State is NOT ACCEPTABLE within any borders.
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        this is true Thinker - a jewish racist state is NOT acceptable anymore than any other racdist state is acceptable and the world needs to reiterate that. Fortunately there are jews with much greater moriality than you.
        Why Israel Has No "Right to Exist" as a Jewish State
        By OREN BEN-DOR
        ...In our world, a world that resisted Apartheid South Africa so impressively, recognition of the right of the Jewish state to exist is a litmus test for moderation and pragmatism. The demand is that Palestinians recognise Israel's entitlement to constitutionally entrench a system of racist basic laws and policies...
        ...only by individuating cases of injustice, by extending claims for injustice to all historic Palestine, by fair address of them without creating another injustice for Jews and finally by ensuring elimination of all racist laws that stems from the Jewish nature of the state including that nature itself, would justice be, and with it peace, possible....
        
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        The path of two states is the path of separation.Its realisation would mean the entrenchment of exclusionary nationalism for many years... Such a scenario is sure to provoke more violence as it would establish the realisation and legitimisation of Zionist racism and imperialism.
        .. The non-recognition of the Jewish state is an egalitarian imperative that looks both at the past and to the future. It is the uncritical recognition of the right of Israel to exist at a Jewish state which is the core hindrance for this egalitarian premise to shape the ethical challenge that Palestine poses. A recognition of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state means the silencing that would breed more and more violence and bloodshed...
        
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        ..It is the non-egalitarian premise of a Jewish state and the lack of empathy and corruption of all those who make us uncritically accept the right of such a state to exist that is both the cause of the refugee problem and cause for the inability to implement their return and treating them as equals thereafter.
        ..To claim such a right to be racist must come from a being whose victim's face must hide very dark primordial aggression and hatred of all others...
        Only a single egalitarian and non sectrarian state over all the whole of historic Palestine will achieve justice and peace.
        Oren Ben-Dor grew up in Israel.
        http://www.counterpunch.org/bendor11202007.html
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      hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      No Walden, it is not reasonable to talk to the zionist government of israel in those terms. The world should NOT accept institutionalized state racism.
      The Trap of Recognizing Israel
      .. There is far more at stake for Israel in winning this little concession from Hamas than most observers appreciate. A statement saying that Hamas recognized Israel would do much more than meet Israel's precondition for talks; it would mean that Hamas had walked into the same trap that was set earlier for Arafat and Fatah. That trap is designed to ensure that any peaceful solution to the conflict is impossible...
      The concept of a state having any rights is not only strange but alien to international law. People have rights, not states. And that is precisely the point: when Israel demands that its "right to exist" be recognized, the subtext is that we are not speaking of recognition of Israel as a normal nation state but as the state of a specific people, the Jews.
      
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        In demanding recognition of its right to exist, Israel is ensuring Palestinians agree to Israel's character being set in stone as an exclusivist Jewish state, one that privileges the rights of Jews over all other ethnic, religious and national groups inside the same territory. The question of what such a state entails is largely glossed overboth by Israel and the West.
        .. This is the bottom line for a Jewish state, just as it was for a white apartheid South Africa: if we are to survive, then we must be able to do whatever it takes to keep ourselves in power, even if it means systematically violating the human rights of all those we rule over and who do not belong to our group.
        
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Ultimately, the consequences of Israel being allowed to remain a Jewish state will be felt by all of us, wherever we live â;; and not only because of the fallout from the continuing and growing anger in the Arab and Muslim worlds at the double standards applied by the West to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.....
        For all our sakes, we must hope that the Palestinians and their Hamas government continue refusing to "recognize Israel's right to exist."
        http://www.antiwar.com/orig/cook.php?articleid=...
        
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        You argue out of ignorance and are pathetic in that regard. I have been there and seen it. It is not what you claim.
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        I have been to israel several times and took the trouble to see what you choose to ignore.
        What would your reaction be if the US only allowed Americans to be married by Mormon pastors? Not so different from what actually occurs in Israel.
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        walden38 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Now you are really grasping.
        You either believe that Israel can exist as a separate country or you don't. If you don't then I wouldn't negotiate with you either.
        To focus on the word "rights" and make some really crazy argument that countries and governments don't have rights is like a drowning man clinging to a toothpick in a tidal wave.
        Countries and governments have rights. International law and treaties govern those rights, remedies and responsibilities.
        And you claim that by saying that Israel has the right to exist...I mean it's not...I don't even know where to begin.
        It's just a red herring.
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Well Walden, it seems you have never understood the genius of American democracy. It is individual human beings, NOT ideologies, governments, religions, ... that have rights.
        """We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."""
        Any government that creates millions of victims for ideology or religion is to be condemned vigorously and ended. This is why the world ended nazi germany, stalinist russia and apartheid south africa. Zionist israel is in the same category of having created millions of victims.
        The ultimate hypocrisy Walden is to claim these rights as a minority in the US (which I support), but deny the same rights when your "tribe" is the majority (israel), even if that majority is in fact fictictious (jews are only 35% of the palestinian population).
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    Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    > How about Hamas' offer of a ceasefire in June 2006?
    How about their "hudna" (cease fire) in 2005 when Hamas claimed that they've actually ceased fire but Israel recorded 2,990 (Two Thousand Nine Hundred Ninety) terrorist attacks? Sorry, dear, in my dictionary "cease fire" means exactly that.
    > Or ANOTHER ceasefire offer December 2007 which Israel refused to even discuss?
    Discuss with WHOM? Hamas did not and does not recognize Israel. In addition, their "offer" explicitly stated that Hamas would not prevent other terrorist "factions" from attacking Israel and Israelis. Islamic Jihad immediately declared that attacks would continue... Sorry, dear, in my dictionary "cease fire" means exactly that.
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      hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      No one should recognize a racist state like israel. It is shameful for the west to have abandoned its democratic foundations by recognizing israel.
      The Root Causes of Tragedy by Oren Ben-Dor
      ... Zionism itself should be subjected to a legal challenge. It is because of Zionism that Israel is a racist state and will ever be. Zionism is committed to the preservation of a Jewish majority and character, and because of these commitments it can not contemplate acknowledging, apologizing for and making restitution for its dark actions. Zionism is the stumbling block...
      Dr. Oren Ben-Dor grew up in Israel.
      http://www.jerusalemites.org/articles/english/D...
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Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago

>>The regular fuel shipment from Israel did not arrive Sunday because the fuel terminal was closed, and the power plant has almost no reserves, said Rafik Maliha, director of the power plant.

>>The U.N. organization in charge of Palestinian refugees warned the blockade would drastically affect hospitals, sewage treatment and water facilities.

>>"The logic of this defies basic humanitarian standards," said Christopher Gunness, spokesman for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA.
Apparently, Mr. Christopher Gunness' believes that in response to Palestinian missiles Israel has to supply fuel and electricity to Gaza thus allowing the Palestinians to build more of these missiles. No wonder this "logic" is defied.

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  Dionys8 months, 3 weeks ago
  
  Three times as many Palestinians have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts. Israel has engaged in intentional genocide in the area. Cutting off supplies (or destroying basic needs or infrastructure such as they have in Lebanon through bombing electricity or water plants, or even bridges)is par for the Israeli course. Isn't it interesting how Israeli ghettos for the Palestinians who have been in resettlement camps for generations are increasingly becoming more and more like Nazi ghettos.
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    idov8 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    "Intentional genocide." I can give you a situation where every Palestinian would disagree with that statement. Let the Palestininians and the Tutsis vote in 1994 if they would be willing to change places and fates. Number of Palestinians in favor, zero. Number of Tutsis, all. If they had switched, a million Palestininians would be dead and all Tutsis would be alive. If Palestinians themselves don't think they are living in "genocide" situation, where do you get your information? Besides that their numbers have been increasing every year, which hardly indicates an attempt to wipe them out physically. Political rhetoric to be effective has to be, like advertising, plausible. Otherwise you are insulting the intelligence of the audience and that's doesn't win you any friends, friend.
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      hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      That is why the zionist rhetoric can only be enforced by lying and censorship idov.
      Forced Migration Review
      Department of International Development
      University of Oxford
      Palestinian displacement: a case apart?
      .. The great majority of the seven million Palestinian refugees still live within 100km of the borders of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip where their homes of origin are located. They are refugees because Israel â;; committed to a permanent Jewish majority and granting citizenship to any member of the Jewish diaspora â;; denies Palestinians their basic human right to return to their homes of origin. Palestinians are the world's largest refugee population, yet...
      http://www.fmreview.org/FMRpdfs/FMR26/FMR26full...
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        I have seen with my eyes and talked to Muslims living in and amongst Israel and not in one of those areas. They do not feel put upon. The Palestinians refuse to do this. They feel that the Muslims that do this are hypocrites and deserving of death. Why?
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        hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Start paying more attention and you will know that your assertion does not reflect reality.
        For example, you do know that 25% of the non-jewish citizens of israel (both christians and moslems) are also displaced persons whose land and property has been stolen and given to jews.
        For example, you do know that there have been serious riots inside israel by christian and moslem citizens who object to being discriminated against as second class citizens.
        For example, you do know that the christian and moslem citizens of israel also object to israel being a jewish state, but that they can be jailed if they say so - even if they are members of the israeli parliament.
        As for your remark about moslems, you need to start understanding that the leadership in resistance has long come from palestinian christians.
        Israel's Purging of Palestinian Christians
        http://www.antiwar.com/cook/?articleid=10297
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    Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    > Three times as many Palestinians have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts.
    Three hundred times as many Japanese have been killed in the WWII than Americans. Nevertheless it were the Japanese who started the war and it were the Japanese who were responsible for its results.
    The Palestinian Arabs started their (separate from other Arabs) war against Israel back in 1964 when they've established the PLO and deliberate mass murder of Israelis was elevated to a new level. 44 years later the Palestinian Arabs still prefer this war to a negotiated peace... and no, there are no "ghettos" or "camps" in Israel. Not a single one.
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      hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      Actually the war started in the 1880s when east european zionists announced their intention to ethnic cleanse palestine and set up a racist religious state.
      Reply
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Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago

>>The British group Oxfam called Israel's cutoff "ineffective as well as unlawful." Gisha, an Israeli group that has fought the fuel cutbacks in Israel's Supreme Court, said: "Punishing Gaza's 1.5 million civilians does not stop the rocket fire. It only creates an impossible 'balance' of human suffering on both sides of the border."
I have to agree with their opinions. Much more effective (and lawful) way to stop the rocket fire would be to turn Gaza into a giant pile of rubble... just like the Allies did in Germany and Japan back in 1945.
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  AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
  
  Thinker22 ~
  You mention Oxfam - which brings an old story to mind.
  The link below is to a NYT article in 2000 that references
  an event between Hillary and Suha Arafat - the infamous "kiss" - in 1999:
  http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=...
  The text below (from a blog) is a very typical diatribe on the same subject:
  Hillary Clinton standing next to Suha Arafat in Ramallah while Suha Arafat accused Israelis and Jews of deliberately poisoning Palestinian children. It was a blatantly antiSemitic lie. It was basically a rehash of a claim made in the Middle Ages that Jews poisoned wells and thereby poisoned the water supply and caused the bubonic plague. After Hillary was safely back in the US and after Hillary saw the criticism that her gutlessness recived, Hillary then condemned Suha Arafat.
  Boy! Did she. The Israel Lobby said, "JUMP" and Hill said,
  "How high?"
  Continued below:
  
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    AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    AnteUp ~ continued to Thinker22
    Only problem with all that? Take a read Thinker22 -
    It WAS true!
    Read, "Poisoning the Village Wells"
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?...
    And that my friend is my problem with Hillary - not that she
    might be a b*ll-busting progressive but that she did not
    stand up for the truth - she wilted when confronted with
    AIPAC pressure. Oxfam tried to protect the wells many times
    from the deliberate contamination by the settlers.
    Bet you never heard that on CNN - neither did I.
    Once again - thank goodness for the internet!
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      Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      > Only problem with all that? Take a read Thinker22 -
      > It WAS true!
      No, it was not. It was just another anti-Semitic racist lie.
      You see, the Jews and the Jewish state have nothing to gain from poisoning Arab wells except of more Arab hatred, violence and terrorism.
      Now try to use YOUR brains if you know how to use them:
      WHO is interested in more Arab hatred, violence and terrorism against the Jews, in your opinion?
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        AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Thinker22 ~
        This is probably hopeless - but, why would Oxfam lie?
        Why would Haaretz lie?
        Please - if you find the concept of Israeli's as oppressors
        immpossible to imagine.........go to YouTube and look
        up settler violence. The videos tell a tale that is
        very hard for anyone to ignore.
        Groups of Israeli children and teens terrorizing Palestinian
        women and children with the IDF laughing and telling the
        Palestinians to get on their way. Because the Israeli children are evil or bad - NO. Because they have been
        encouraged to behave this way. There IS racism in Israel.
        
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > This is probably hopeless - but, why would Oxfam lie?
        > Why would Haaretz lie?
        Probably, for the very same reason YOU lie: in order to smear Israel and the Jews.
        > Groups of Israeli children and teens terrorizing Palestinian women and children...
        I have to admit that the Jews in general and Israelis in particular are NOT angels... and some Israeli children and teens "terrorize" Palestinians...
        Do you believe that ALL Palestinians are responsible (and, therefore, should be punished) for the actions of terrorists from Hamas and Islamic Jihad? If not WHY are you blaming ALL Jews and the Jewish state for the actions of some children and teens???
        > There IS racism in Israel.
        Of course. Nevertheless, the number of Israeli Arabs increased TEN TIMES since 1948 and today there are 1.2 Million Arabs who legally live as citizens in Israel. During the very same period the number of Jews in the Arab states DECREASED by 99%. Do you have a problem with that?
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        AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Thinker22 ~
        This thread is pretty well history at this point but I
        see no reason for you to say I LIE.
        I made statements but I also went to the trouble of giving
        links to the stories. For you to posit that Oxfam and
        Haaretz -just like me,you say - LIE in order to smear Israel
        and the Jews? It is an unjust statement.
        You also reference many population figures about Arabs
        within Israel and Jews within "the Arab states" (and what do
        you mean by that - Arab states??) but YOU give no reference
        or link to the source of that info. You ask, "Do I have a
        problem with that?" - I don't know. I cannot offer an
        opinion on the current demographics without clarification
        on your use of "Arab states" and your source. I find it
        doubtful - but we might have the opportunity to be on the
        same page - that is literally rather than ideologically.
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > I made statements but I also went to the trouble of giving links to the stories. For you to posit that Oxfam and Haaretz -just like me,you say - LIE in order to smear Israel and the Jews? It is an unjust statement.
        Do you expect me to find a link to something saying that Oxfam and Haaretz lie or you want me to find actual examples of lies made by them?
        I can do either or both, you know...
        > You also reference many population figures about Arabs within Israel and Jews within "the Arab states" (and what do you mean by that - Arab states??)
        By Arab states I mean just that, Arab states. Member-states of the Arab League. Syrian ARAB Republic, ARAB Republic of Egypt and Saudi ARABia are just a couple of examples.
        Here is some more information about the Arab League:
        http://lexicorient.com/e.o/arab_league.htm
        Reply
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TheRealizer8 months, 3 weeks ago

The U.S. and Israel are good at reducing entire areas into rubble!!!!!!
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  Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
  
  > The U.S. and Israel are good at reducing entire areas into rubble!!!!!!
  Well, if you believe in your words above you'll have no troubles to list a couple of such areas Israel reduced into rubble. On the other hand, if you can not answer this question I'll have to conclude that you DO NOT believe in your own words...
  The best definition of a liar is "one who does not believe in his/her own words."
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    Daylight8 months, 3 weeks ago
    
    Thinker22
    The best definition of a liar is "one who does not believe in his/her own words."
    The best definition of a liar is that the one who repeats his lie hundreds of thousands of times and believe it as the truth. Israel has been taught an trained by the Hitlers regime, so there is no difference between Hitler and Olmert today.
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      walden38 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      Do you have any evidence to support....
      Oh, never mind I think I'm wasting my time.
      Hate on.
      Reply
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        idov8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        The best definition of a liar in the history of the world is someone who says this, "there is no difference between Hitler and Olmert today."
        Reply
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        cherev8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        "there is no difference between Hitler and Olmert today."
        Well, Hitler forced Jews out of their homes and so did Olmert.
        Reply
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > Hitler forced Jews out of their homes and so did Olmert.
        Do you REALLY believe that Olmert should have leaved those Jews in Gaza after the withdrawal?
        Reply
        
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > Hitler forced Jews out of their homes and so did Olmert.
        Do you REALLY believe that Olmert should have left those Jews in Gaza after the withdrawal?
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        cherev8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        I don't believe Israel should have withdrawn.
        Are you so pleased with the results of the withdrawal?
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        Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        Every time Israel cave to a demand the Palestinians want even more. What they really want is death to all Jews. That is the only thing that they will accept. Muhammad's solution for the Jewish tribe of Qurayzah. Behead the men and make the women and children slaves. When Arafat made a treaty that the Palestinians didn't like he told them it will be like the treaty with the Qurayzah. They were happy then.
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > I don't believe Israel should have withdrawn.
        > Are you so pleased with the results of the withdrawal?
        You don't believe Israel should have withdrawn...
        Apparently, you were pleased with the almost daily attacks of walking bombs in Israeli schools, markets and buses. Otherwise you would not ask for all those terrorists and their supporters who are now pretty safely contained behind the wall in Gaza to be INSIDE Israel.
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        cherev8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        "Apparently, you were pleased with the almost daily attacks of walking bombs in Israeli schools, markets and buses. Otherwise you would not ask for all those terrorists and their supporters who are now pretty safely contained behind the wall in Gaza to be INSIDE Israel."
        I noticed you failed to answer my question, but went ahead and made a moronic assumption. There is another alternative. The world won't like it, of course, but the world always protests any effort to save Jewish lives.
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        Thinker228 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        > I noticed you failed to answer my question, but went ahead and made a moronic assumption.
        I believe that my reply was pretty obvious. Yes, I prefer to have the Palestinians in general and Palestinian terrorists, in particular, OUT of Israel.
        The "moronic assumption" was a pretty clear summary of your position. You see, if Israeli Jews are allowed to live and move freely in and out of Gaza and the West Bank it means that the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank can not be prevented from moving freely in and out of Israel. You've stated that this was what you wanted, didn't you?
        > There is another alternative.
        What is it, elimination of all Arabs?
        You may pray for it if you wish but I'm afraid that it is not going to happen.
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        AnteUp8 months, 3 weeks ago
        
        walden3 ~
        I'll give you three links to stories by Gideon Levy -
        don't ask me why - I just want to share with you.
        They in no way support the idea that Israeli's were taught and trained by Hitler's Third Reich - not something I would ever say. But there have been times when the plight of Gaza and the West Bank have brought to mind the Warsaw Ghetto.
        http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/943711.html
        http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/907708.html
        http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/927531.html
        P.S. I will add that the Israeli's have broken more than one ceasefire that was working by carrying out either a "routine
        incursion" or a targeted assasination and then they sit back and wait for the rocket response they knew it would provoke.
        Only then does the U.S. puts it's two cents-worth and condemn the "terrorists".
        
        Reply
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      Endoscopy8 months, 3 weeks ago
      
      Daylight
      The Muslims are the ones doing the killing and launchi

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