Iranian boats "provoke" U.S. Navy ships in Hormuz »
Posted by: MyWayOnNow 7 months, 3 weeks ago733 Comments Report this Story
Five Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats harassed and provoked three U.S. Navy ships in the Strait of Hormuz on Saturday, CNN reported.
Read Full Story at reuters.com
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Comments So Far: 733
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AOL-my-crater7 months, 3 weeks ago
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MisterX7 months, 3 weeks ago
Oh yes! Somebody (senator or congressman) said for us to look out for a "Gulf of Tonkin incident" sometime between about a month ago and the end of Dubbya's reign. He must be psychic. Ok, so far, we have Arabs on TV threatening Dubbya's life and we have Iranian gunboats provoking US warships. We really ought to keep a list of all of this. I have a feeling it's going to grow now. We are going to see spin on spin reporting.
To think, this is happening right before the election. Now, who would everybody vote for when all of this is going on?
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hamy7 months, 3 weeks ago
I would vote for anyone but Bush. He has started World War III and he is gonna dump it into someone elses lap. Just so that his party can take power back in the next election.
How sad that people's lives are that worthless to him.
What a disgusting excuse for a human being.
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Endoscopy7 months, 3 weeks ago
"He has started World War III "
He must have ordered the twin towers to be done. How did he do that???
Think before you make such ridiculous comments.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin7 months, 3 weeks ago
'' He must have ordered the twin towers to be done. How did he do that???''
you really really really don't want to ask that question...
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Lurch7 months, 3 weeks ago
this war has nothing to do with saving the economy, it has everything to do with raping the economy.
They know that by enriching themselves and their cronies to a massive level using war, nobody will be able to stop them til its too late. And even then, they will be so rich they will be part of the permanent American royalty and they will be untouchable.
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TheRealizer7 months, 3 weeks ago
The U.S. has gone from being the greatest industrial power in the world, to being the biggest debtor nation in the world.
This has been accomplished in one generation!!!!
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Justice4All7 months, 3 weeks ago
My oil stocks are doing great.
No one ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the American people.
I'm betting that people will continue believing what they want, and ignoring all the facts. SO far I have been right.
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mesodude7 months, 3 weeks ago
"perhaps they feel this can save the US economy from imploding."
--Chimper's first 7 years in office were marked by failure after failure. He is now making ever more sad, desperate and futile attempts to salvage his legacy. When the best he could possibly hope for is to leave a breathtakingly disgraceful legacy behind rather than a cosmically horrendous one, I really can't imagine why he'd bother.
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tanglang7 months, 3 weeks ago
Hamy, you obviously being the fool here were the one who said that Bush started WWIII and is going to dump it in someone elses lap. As if a war this big could be started and finished in such a short amount of time for it not to be handed down to someone else.
What we need to do is elect someone who does not view this war as something being dumped into their lap, but a war that they look forward to winning.
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Candida7 months, 3 weeks ago
tanglang: "As if a war this big could be started and finished in such a short amount of time"
How long did WWII last?
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flyonthewallzz7 months, 3 weeks ago
"In 1786 Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman"
"The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet (Mohammed), that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Muslim who should be slain in battle was sure to go to heaven."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
We have walked this path before.
I think we screwed up then. At the time there where some folks that felt we should be more like China and let those that wished to do business with us, come to us and trade.
Why spend so much treasure and honor protecting the interests of merchants and traders when our resources where available without the risk?
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markoller7 months, 3 weeks ago
Tanglang,
No, the world was fighting against the German, Japanese and Italian empires. Even if the "worldwide Islamic jihad" existed, it would not amount to much more than a couple enemy platoons in World War II. If you were a government sock puppet, you would not resort to such a ridiculous argument, so what is your motive?
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tanglang7 months, 3 weeks ago
The World was fighting an organized military back in WWII. Not a terrorist oranization who looks just like everybody else in that region. If we were fighting them on a battle field, their weapons and troops against our, the war would have been over in seconds.
I don't even want to know what the hell you think a government sock puppet is.
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blowback7 months, 3 weeks ago
The kind of
fighting
you describe
emerged in the
post-WW2 period
when nations
had the
opportunity
to free
themselves from
European
imperialism,
then weakened
by that war.
This 'war' is
not that much
different.
A government sock
puppet is psyops -
psychological
operations.
A government
euphemism
for propaganda.
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hamy7 months, 3 weeks ago
What about Vietnam then? Extremely similar situations. Dumped in the lab of another president who had to pull us out of a quagmire.
This war was a mistake and it will cost our great nation for the rest of our lives.
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SpazMat7 months, 3 weeks ago
Candida:
"How long did WWII last?"
At least 8 years, 1937 to 1945, though I recall story to the effect that it just ended recently.
A couple of Japanese combatants continued resistance until 2005, and I think the final treaty on different national status was signed in the last 10 or 15 years.
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Candida7 months, 3 weeks ago
All right, I'll give you 1937 even though the first two years were an Asian conflict only, and the official starting date was September 1, 1939. I guess the current wars with two measly little countries should be over then in a couple of years.
(I've heard stories that WWII ended lickety-split as soon as the US entered it and saved the whole world.)
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SpazMat7 months, 3 weeks ago
"Two measly little countries", Japan and Germany, made WWII the love fest it was, so don't be putting down two countries.
Instead of counting days, why don't you count bodies? Look at the destruction rained down on people over the period of WWII and that over the period of Iraq, and understand we are not fighting the same kind of war, and that the time table just might be different.
In WWII we went ahead and carpet bombed the civilians into submission, as opposed to wringing our hands over each death. If you would like us to use those rules of engagement, call Bush up and let him know your support.
Otherwise, understand the differences between the wars, and the limits that we put on ourselves. We could have owned Iraq, but we were not willing to pay the price, in terms of Iraqi blood.
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Candida7 months, 3 weeks ago
Thank you for making these points for me. I won't go back to WWII, even though I'm very aware of what's happened then.
I agree with you completely that these wars are different, but that was foreseeable. The mighty Soviet Union could not keep Afghanistan, even though it was in its own backyard, and before the Iraq war started, there were cries about entering a Vietnam-like quagmire. Bush didn't want to hear it. He claimed that this was completely different because there was no jungle in Iraq, only a desert. Dick Cheney expected roses, and to some extent got them in the first few weeks.
What they didn't understand or, more likely didn't admit to understanding, was that liberators turn very quickly into occupiers if the liberators don't leave quickly. Have you seen Cheney's interview in which he explains why Iraq wasn't occupied in 1991? The same factors are in play today.
Guerrilla wars are unwinnable without the support of the locals.
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SpazMat7 months, 3 weeks ago
History shows that we had the VC and NVA on the ropes after TET-68, that they were totally unprepared for the shellacking they took. Their doctrine said that the people would rise up against us, and throw off the capitalist oppressors, and doctrine must always be right, even when it is wrong, so they got whacked.
But Cronkite declared defeat, and everyone insisted we go home. Now the surge is working - not entirely because of the surge, very much because, as you said was required, the locals have decided that AQ is not the best choice to have around, and started shooting them instead of us.
And again, we are having the media declaring defeat, and the libs demanding we go home.
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Candida7 months, 3 weeks ago
I don't know any Iraqis, but I did know some North-Vietnamese personally during the Vietnam war. They were ready to fight to the last person. I deliberately used the word person rather than man because they were all ready to fight, men, women and children. You could win only battles there, not the war, unless you were willing to exterminate the whole North-Vietnamese population.
Do you ever ask what that war was for? Even if you had won, would it have been worth the destruction of several countries in the process?
If/when the Iraqis decide to have peace, there will be peace, but don't be fooled by the lull in the violence. Occupation is occupation, and they probably feel the same way as you would if some other country tried to liberate you.
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SpazMat7 months, 2 weeks ago
I did not say we were going to take over North Vietnam.
We had the NVA on the ropes in RVN. The NVA had the VC on the ropes so they would get no arguments about reunification.
"Do you ever ask what that war was for?"
It was a show of resolve. It was specifically about showing the Red Menace that we would not simply allow them to take over the world.
"Even if you had won, would it have been worth the destruction of several countries in the process?"
To who? As it turned out, yes. The Petit Lao and the Khmer Rouge would not have had their time in the sun, killing anyone with more than an elementary school education.
If we had won, it could have forced the dissolution of the USSR at an earlier date, saving a lot of money for a number of economies, and, by proxy, the citizens of those countries.
It could have kept China from taking the more aggressive posture it has been taking lately.
It would have kept Carter out of the WH, and Iran might be a better place.
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SpazMat7 months, 3 weeks ago
"(I've heard stories that WWII ended lickety-split as soon as the US entered it and saved the whole world.)"
You never heard that in the Rodina! The Great Patriotic War was won by the blood sweat and tears of Soviet Man! The rest was a side show!
Or by the Blood Sweat and Tears of the Brits (who came up with the phrase), with minor support from some others, not sure what their names were.
Every one has a story to tell, and for everyone, it is from their perspective, and favors them.
For the US, the story is about the bleak days of 42 and 43, when we thought we would lose, followed by the rising tide of victory in 44 and 45. If people tell you otherwise, it is at the expense of the truth, and does not include official US Military branch histories.
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tanglang7 months, 3 weeks ago
HOLY CRAP, a post from dunkirk that did NOT start with "ROFLMAO"! Dunny, I am saving this page. Good show.
Now to the point, I was not predicting victory in weeks. As a matter of fact, the people who were, were predicting that the Iraqi army would be defeated in weeks. Which they were. What those people did not plan for was the insurgency that followed. Right now Iraq is just one of osamas battlefields. There was PBS Frontline show about osama a couple years ago that quoted osama saying months before we went to war in Iraq that Iraq would be one of his two major battle fields.
No one could ever predict what would happen. To be honest, no one wanted to. No one wanted to be the one to say that this is a war with millions of islamic nazis that will last decades because every time we kill one, two more take his place. No one wanted to be that guy. Nor did they want to be the one to say that not fighting will only make things worse.
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Candida7 months, 3 weeks ago
Perhaps you weren't making specific predictions, but take a look at all the people who have done so.
http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2007/08/08/i...
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MRCOFFEECAKE7 months, 3 weeks ago
oh no??.."This war will be paid for with Iraqui oil"
Donald Rumsfeld March 2003
"They will be throwing parades and welcoming us as liberating victors" Cheney April 2003
"Mission accomplished" Bush may 2003...
Need more????
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dunkirk7 months, 3 weeks ago
No one wanted to predict? Odd when you commit a nation to war you had better be predicting the consequences.
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hamy7 months, 3 weeks ago
Please.
There is no winning. We could never win and will never win because no one even can tell me what winning means. Do you know? You have never put it in words to me. Each time I ask, you simply say bringing democracy to Iraq which we already did. You have dodged the question by saying that you don't need to answer it in the past as well.
What does it mean?
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin7 months, 3 weeks ago
Let me explain:
{'' He must have ordered the twin towers to be done. How did he do that???''
you really really really don't want to ask that question...}
You don't want to ask that question unless you want a 300 post diversion about the theory that 9/11 was an inside job, and another 300 posts about how there is no evidence, and another 300 posts about how there IS evidence, and another 300 about how coincidences and circumstanial evidence is not enough, and another 300 about...
I can ALWAYS think of a reasonable answer and articulate it at least marginally well...that's my thang
'How did he do that' should not be pursued without more than circumstantial evidence, as even if it WAS done, we are better served dealing with the fallout than the event, because what's done is done, and no matter what the last 6 years won't change and the dead won't get to come back, whether or not it was done, let alone 'how'.
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markoller7 months, 3 weeks ago
I insist that you explain away the fact that the Twin Trade Towers were destroyed with explosives, along with WTC7 and WTC6. To call the facts "circustantial evidence," is a lie. It is as certain as anything can be, and anyone who ever made a genuine effort to examine the evidence on the Internet, knows it.
I also want you to explain the destruction of WTC7, which no one pretends was hit by a jet. Larry Silverstein admitted that he said, "pull it." Don't tell me you believe his ridiculous retraction. Furthermore, the BBC announced the destruction of WTC7 26 minutes in advance, and they parroted the absurd cover story that it was weakened by fire. Perhaps, someone was trying to send a message.
As a last resort, you claim that it does not matter after six years if our government did carry out the terrorism. You must really be desparate to resort to THAT argument.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin7 months, 3 weeks ago
'as certain as anything can be'?
as certain as death and taxes?
'I also want you to explain the destruction of WTC7'
My dad as we drove by a McDonald's when I was a kid:
Hey, you want a Big Mac?
(me) hey, yeah!
(my dad) Well how does it feel to want? *steps on gas pedal*
You know, I never really did get his senswe of humor...
what you are treading on is for another thread, which was my whole point. Isn't there also some thing about proving a negative assertion? I can't prove the tooth fairy didn't commit 9/11 etc. It's UP to YOU to prove your positive assertion, not me.
But see I made no real assertion, except that the circumstances surrounding 9/11 are suspicious.
Someone saying they heard a gunshot isn't enough, and a neighbor who has a gun and motive is not enough, you have to tie it all together, ballistics, a body, time and whereabouts, etc
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin7 months, 3 weeks ago
'' the evidence on the Internet''
the actual evidence isn't ON the internet. those are pictures and words, not actual things like explosive residue, timers, etc.
Boy this is the most I've engaged in this argument. I feel exposed
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markoller7 months, 3 weeks ago
The "words" on the internet reveal the physical evidence, including steel melted by thermate, and sometimes photographs and video tapes ARE evidence. Nor did I ask you to prove a negative, but to disprove all the positive proof that the buildings were destroyed by explosives.
Why is there a conspiracy to suppress all of the evidence, including live television broadcasts from the World Trade Center? Why is it necessary to suppress all opposing opinions? Why are people like you so desperate to deny the obvious? Why do you resort to such feeble arguments? Are my posts that effective? Are Bush and Cheney afraid of me?
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin7 months, 3 weeks ago
hell, I said the circumstances surrounding 9/11 were 'suspicious, what do you want?
If you want confirm your own suspicions with 'internet evidence, that's up to you.
But to say such a thing is, what was it, 'as certain as can be[?]' is a bit of a stretch. I tend to be more skeptical than that. As for my feeble arguments, they're feeble to you because you think I'm arguing with you and I'm not, and that I'm locked into a '9/11 wasn't an inside job' position, when I'm just a skeptic.
If I wanted to fill up this thread with argument, I could. That would be torrent29 or one of your other anti-CT nemises you're looking for.
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fourthtunz7 months, 3 weeks ago
Endoscopy, why is his comment ridiculous?
Have you never read any freedom of information documents about our cia?
You can go back before the spanish american war even before the cia existed, we have had our hands in and started many wars to achieve our objectives.
I have always supported my country and my government but not when our government is starting wars to make money for the elite, I'm sorry I can't support that. The left and right are guilty of this by the way.
Maybe there are no documents linking Bush directly to 911 but he didn't do anything to stop it, so yeah I believe he is guilty.
Plausible deniability.
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tanglang7 months, 3 weeks ago
So, is clinton guilty of not stopping the several al qeada attacks that took place on our soil during his presidency?
Was Roosevelt guilty for not stopping Pearl Harbor? Do you realize how rediculous your statement is?
Besides, there is absolutely no truth to your other statement about our government starting wars to make money for the elite either.
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anna_marie107 months, 3 weeks ago
Of course not. We went into Iraq to rid them of evil Saddam. Killed some 100,000 Iraqis up until now. Saddam's dead. Why are we still there? Cause we'll bring democracy to the dead right?
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MRCOFFEECAKE7 months, 3 weeks ago
anna marie, don't bother:
They are too far gone and too deep to swallow their pride, work to undo the damage and try to move on.
Tanglang and the few remaining stubborn stragglers
deny everything and have no expert opinions.
They have proven that their opinion is always wrong and have no credibility..They represent the few, the proud, the pathetic..
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MRCOFFEECAKE7 months, 3 weeks ago
I know Marines too.
wanna count your marines vs. my marines or do you want to start the year by stopping your foolish comments?
It was YOU who I refer to as FEW (less than 29%)
I referrred to you not "swallowing your PRIDE"
and you as PATHETIC..Of course you try to turn my play on words around..or is it too deep for you??
Roman soldiers were doing what they were told too.
They all have pride and deservedly so. They are our nation's greatest athletes.
It is not their fault, nor was it the Roman soldiers fault that their leader failed them.
It comes from the top.
Try looking there for accountability some day and you may realize that our friends have been sent into a minefields with improper armor and coming home to
inadequate healthcare..Or don't you see that either??
A true friend could see that..
I give up wasting my time on you this year..
Understand THAT explanation??
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tanglang7 months, 3 weeks ago
What? Mrcuckoopuffs blantently insulted the Marine Corps. All I said was that I know some Marines who would love to hear him do it. Nowhere did I say that I would use violence against anyone who does not agree with me. Calm down there chicken little, the sky is not falling.
You might also notice that there were no facts in cc's logic.
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GLee7 months, 3 weeks ago
You libs need to get your head out of the sand. You can't keep trying to hid from this war brought on by an Islamic Fundamentalist Radical Nation that is very good at hiding and using civilians as thier shields and targets. It is being fought on several different fronts that begin in your own front yard (if you have one). Sorry, but it just isn't going to disappear.
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DropkickaLib7 months, 3 weeks ago
Clinton was better at killing Christians. Just ask the Serbs!
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markoller7 months, 3 weeks ago
Clinton perpetrated the one false flag 'Arab' terrorist attack on our soil: the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. What were the others?
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markoller7 months, 3 weeks ago
World War III has not started yet, no thanks to Bush, Cheney and the neoconservatives. And it is incredible that the explosive charges and thermate were planted in 36 hours, but not nearly as incredible as denying that the Twin Towers, WTC7 and WTC6 were not demolished by explosives. A fact is a fact, even if it seems impossible.
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markoller7 months, 3 weeks ago
How many times must I repeat, in slow motion, the second plane crash is as phony as the Osama bin Laden videos. Until now, I neglected to mention that the original broadcasts of the second plane crash, showed the nose of the plane coming out the other end of the building! Then the screen went blank, and the mistake was edited out.
Only one amateur video was made of the first plane crash, and it showed a small aircraft which was too fuzzy to identify. And would you condescending blind men and sock puppets explain what happened to the plane wreckage. Why was nothing found but a 737 engine? Of course, you never heard of WTC7.
You can call me a "toofer," but I call you an accessory to murder, and all the previous cover-ups of Israeli sponsored, false flag terrorism led to the destruction of the Twin Trade Towers. Do you also claim that that Osama bin Laden's head has expanded, and his nose has swollen to orange propertions?
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wasntme7 months, 3 weeks ago
Mark take a look at the links I just posted below..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vIvbCDsMrSg
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-106936... the criminals frightened&hl=en
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wasntme7 months, 3 weeks ago
Watching the first video is sure shocking because after all it is coming from a news source ,FoxNews,that is owned by an Australian Jew , Rupert Murdoch. After watching it it makes you want to think maybe those who have dual citizenship of Israel and US and are currently working in US government should go through routine lie detector test to prove that their loyalty lies with US and not with Israel first. Those who watch this video and ignore it are afraid to face anything that challenges their well trenched version of the government lines, be it Israeli or US government, and corporate media.
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svensun7 months, 3 weeks ago
Yes, what I and untold thousands of people saw happen on live television that awful day, and have seen repeatedly from the video of multiple cameras (news broadcasts, French video crew on ground level, amateur video from rooftop in Brooklyn) just did not happen, according to you.
If you will deny this fact, then I don't see how or on what basis anyone can hold an intelligent conversation with you on any facet of reality.
You are, however, providing compelling evidence for the existence of an alternate universe.
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wasntme7 months, 3 weeks ago
take a look a t these two links...a good place to start...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-106936... the criminals frightened&hl=en
and this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vIvbCDsMrSg
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Lurch7 months, 3 weeks ago
The twin towers had nothing to do with starting WWIII.
That was an attack by a small terror group funded by Saudis, staffed by Saudis, and backed by a group that while brutally oppressing its people got $43M in `humanitarian` aid from the Bush admin.
This had nothing to do with Iraq, but you already knew that.
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djn3nunez37 months, 3 weeks ago
...The twin towers had nothing to do with starting WWIII.
I'm in absolute agreement.
I will say that the current administration did use the emotions we all felt that day and morphed the countries need for revenge into the long sought after PNAC goal of invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Will that start WWIII. Maybe, maybe not.....
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markoller7 months, 3 weeks ago
What World War III? If Richard Cheney had his way, he might have started World War III with Russia and China, but the Air Force and intelligence agencies leaked the plans to bomb Iran, and the Air Force revealed that a B-52 had inadvertently been equipped with six nuclear armed cruise missiles.
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Daylight7 months, 3 weeks ago
Endoscopy
He must have ordered the twin towers to be done. How did he do that???
There is no doubt that the CIA and Mossad involved in the twin tower attack to start the neocon agenda. So they started a war with Iraq and Afghanistan.
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hamy7 months, 3 weeks ago
Um. If you can still support this corrupt administration, it is you who needs a dose of reality.
Bush hates me. I pity him. He has made it very clear that I am not worthy of life. He has done things in my name that are deplorable. He can't even speak his mother tongue.
And you simply spout gibberish in his defense. No facts. Just gibberish. Enjoy your ignorance.
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saintetienne7 months, 3 weeks ago
"Bush hates me."
"He has done things in my name that are deplorable."
"He can't even speak his mother tongue."
Ham-for-brains, what in God's name are you babbling about? Just re-read your statement above, then tell me that ANYONE on Nutscape is taking you seriously.
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Jaydee407 months, 3 weeks ago
Why don't you crawl back under your rock before you get sun burnt out here Sainte. Bush AKA the shrub has shown he hates the ordinary person with his disregard for their health care, public safety, and even their very lives. He has turned most of the world against Americans by kidnapping and torturing foreign nationals and he brings the term putting foot in mouth to an entire new level. It's you that people just tolerate on this site with your silly rants and childish name calling. You always seem to be able to stick your head in the sand and deny things going on right in plane view, just because people are powerless to correct the wrongs the government does doesn't mean they should not call them what they are, a bunch of thugs.
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tanglang7 months, 3 weeks ago
WTF??? With his disregard for their healthcare? Are you kidding me? What disregard for healthcare? He was the one who wanted to expand our childrens healthcare plan by 5 billion just to make sure that underprivileged kids were taken care of, yet that does not matter to you on the left because your plan would have covered middle class adults too. Middle class adults who could afford to pay for their own way as opposed to being a drain on society.
He turned most of the world against Americans? Huh? I was not aware that the majority of the world hated Americans. The last time I checked, that was not the case. However, the majority of the radical islamic kill your daughters for dating boys world does in fact hate us. But that's just fine with me.
The people are not powerless to correct government wrongs. What they cannot do is slander and commit libel when they have no proof.
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BB647 months, 3 weeks ago
Heath care? Who gave the Medicare prescription drug program? That was Bush.
You want to see healtcare costs go down, stop giving free healthcare to illegal aliens. Why do you think aspirin cost $50 in the hospital? Here's a better idea, back charge the costs against the foreign aid we provide the nations where the illegals are from.
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Jaydee407 months, 3 weeks ago
Five billion for a population over 300 million is a joke and you know it. I know all 300 plus don't use the plan but still with the way hospitals, drug companies and insurance companies manage the money it's token at best. How many people die every day in the US from lack of medical care? Have you watched the CBC or BBC comedy shows lately? most humour is at the expense of the US, even the French have there cracks at Bush Co on the regular bases.
How can they obtain proof when the Government keeps destroying it or classifying it under national security and keeps pardoning their own or hiding behind executive privileges? Ones the US was built on free speech, now it has free speech zones and uses kidnapping and torture, both of which are against American law. Are you really proud of your government Tang? If you truly are an American you shouldn't be.
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