U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq creates training zone for terrorism »
Posted by: engineer 1 year, 3 months ago104 Comments Report this Story
War supporters argue that the war in Iraq is the central front in a war against ``terrorism'' and that if we don't fight the terrorists there we will have to fight them here later. This is a ludicrous assertion. This falsehood goes back to the lies advanced by the Bush administration in the propaganda campaign to market the war that Iraq was inv
Read Full Story at mlive.com
Join the Discussion 
+ Add Comment
Comments So Far: 104
-
0%
ETproductions1 year, 3 months ago
Thank you for posting the truth about Bush's bumbling of the war on terror. His actions have vastly increased the risk, not made us safer. I hope the Republicans run a Bush was Right guy like their current front-runners so we can use the campaign to get the real truth of this out to the American people.
The US and Britain have pursued a foreign policy of intervention and bullying in the Middle East ever since the end of WWII.
1953 - Iran: CIA overthrows the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh in a military coup, after he threatened to nationalize British oil. The CIA replaces him with a dictator, the Shah of Iran, whose secret police, SAVAK, is as brutal as the Gestapo. http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/07/29_ki...
1963 - Iraq: The CIA helped Saddam grab power by strategic assassinations. Again, the issue was us controling Iraq's oil. http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html
Reply-
67%
ETproductions1 year, 3 months ago
For more on this plus a comprehensive list of our worldwide bullying and interference in the affairs of soverign nations, see http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
This strategy has made us increasingly isolated and hated. It has NOT made us more safe. And it has come to its ugly maturity under the neocon Bush Administration.
Reply-
100%
deathray1 year, 3 months ago
The newest revelation out of the intelligence community is that trained terrorists (who have been training th ast few years in Iraq) are being exported as a commodity to other parts of the ME.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/28/world/middlee...
Reply -
100%
LordyLordy1 year, 3 months ago
Look at this link if you want more insight on this:
http://news.netscape.com/story/2007/05/23/bush-...
I have always believed there was more going on than Afghanistan that the trail of insanity went further than just Iraq as well. Well meaning but ignorant politicians, whose only aim was to fatten their own coffers, are continually trying to stop funding of this war, to take away our troops ability to defend themselves or fight this enemy. Mark my words, Democrat or Republican, if you leave Iraq now, without finishing it, you will be sending your children there to die again in another 10 years, only they will be much better armed. The Muslim terrorists want to make this area their base of operations. I am not a Republican nor a Democrat, but I am a patriot of this country. Some of you I think would sell her for the promise of peace and because of it you'll get neither. It takes courage to hold together such a great nation.
Reply
-
-
-
-
50%
progressive-bum1 year, 3 months ago
The only solution is to immediately start a serious diplomatic effort with ALL of Iraq's neighbors to hash out a strategy based on their culture and ethnic/religious divisions. In that framework US troops must be withdrawn and the Iraqi puppet government must be disbanded. Likely, a loose federation of Iraqi states will emerge, with a central governing body that divides oil revenues equally among the factions.
Neighboring countries have a lot more riding on a functioning Iraq than the US does. We don't understand the culture and heritage, nor do we speak the language. The US is ill equipped to find a solution.
Reply -
100%
agentX1 year, 3 months ago
"According to most experts on the Middle East, this small group of foreign terrorists has no ability to come to the U.S., no ability to take over the Iraqi government and will be driven from Iraq as soon as the U.S. leaves. As University of Michigan Middle Eastern history professor Juan Cole points out, ``Turkey, Jordan and Iran are not going to put up with an al-Qaida stronghold on their borders; nor would Shiite and Kurdish Iraqis.''
Rather than fighting terrorism, the invasion of Iraq has caused more terrorism. In a recent report, the Oxford Research Group noted that ``treating Iraq as part of the war on terror only spawned new terror in the region and created a combat training zone for jihadists.'' Thus, continuing this war makes us less safe from future terrorism, not more. "
Isn't this the crux of the argument why the Bush Administration's only goal in Iraq is to gain control of an Oil source and make their buddies rich?
Reply-
100%
berkeley1 year, 3 months ago
many others have argued that creating a bigger problem, as has happened, was an equally important part of the original invasion strategy. i agree with them.
bush/cheney tell us we now are engaged in a war that will take decades, or, a war without end. cheney got what he wanted.
of course it is possible to change course, but who can guess how long that would take, even if there were the political will to do so.
Reply -
0%
LordyLordy1 year, 3 months ago
But there is one thing I do agree on. Democrats and Republicans need to unite against this threat from the Muslim terrorists, a united front, not only now but in the future. Those who are beating their chests now are truly clueless of the intent of the Muslim terrorists. If you value your freedom, your security, and your peace, this is the time to rally around your flag and your country, put aside your differences, even temporarily, until they have been eradicated. They are evil, and they only see your protest as your weakness, to be exploited, and they are exploiting it.
Reply -
0%
LordyLordy1 year, 3 months ago
"Turkey, Jordan and Iran are not going to put up with an al-Qaida stronghold on their borders; nor would Shiite and Kurdish Iraqis."
Sorry I would respectfully disagree with this statement. Some of these terrorists are coming from Jordan, Iran, and Syria. The Sunni factions want to kill the Shiite, and the Kurdish were virtually disarmed by the U.S. and U.N. during the first conflict. If you'd heavily arm the Kurdish and leave the country, you'd see a bloodbath all right, and they would take care of the problem. Other than the common Iraq people, I'd arm the Kurds, give them a chance. They will do what the rest of the world lacks the resolve to do, and that is deal with the Muslim terrorists...as they should be.
Reply
-
-
0%
4cprocess1 year, 3 months ago
As with all wars it's always argued that the "strategy" is all wrong. Especially by the left. Which we will call simply the "left". No need to engage in name calling.
OK. Let's try our best to try and explain that these people, which refers to our enemies (MUSLIM TERRORIST), were able to commandeer our OWN public aircraft and use them as BOMBS against us. And let's also assume that we (the American public) are without a doubt the greatest consumers of fossil fuel.
Does anyone disagree yet?
WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO CAUSE?
Oh yeah, I almost forgot....
If you were the President of the United States of America?
You gonna just sit on your hands?
Think about it.
Thanks for the story ET, very insightful. But not the "whole" story.
In God We Trust
Reply-
50%
4cprocess1 year, 3 months ago
These "morons" (the TERRORISTS) if left to take over an entire country would simply use the civilian aircraft available to REPEAT the same ATTACK.
So yeah. What if by taking them on away from our soil is drawing them and uniting them in one area that is away from the soil of our very own existence.
You got a problem with that or would you prefer the battle rage in you own back yard?
Because no matter what you say or do, these "b a s t u r d s" want to kill you, probably more because your a "liberal" than me.
So get off your "Peace" bandwagon and do more to speak out against the atrocities "they" the "TERRORIST" are commiting on their own people and let your (paid for in the blood of my own children) do they "job" that they willingly signed on for.
In God We Trust
Reply-
HomeGManComment removed: User banned.
-
0%
fourthtunz1 year, 3 months ago
You are naive and do not know the history of your own country.
We have the most powerful military and best intelligence service that has ever
been. They invent terrorists and wars wherever they want.
There is no left and right, there is just Money, he who has the gold makes the rules.
If you want your children to die for wealthy bankers who have no country and use the citizens of the world as pawns, It's free country.
Reply -
100%
jordan111 year, 3 months ago
as with all wars it's always argued that the "strategy" is all wrong. Especially by the left. Which we will call simply the "left". No need to engage in name calling.>>>>>
Well now, I can see if I continue reading your post it will be non partisan, & only reflect insightful information, LOL!
Reply-
0%
LordyLordy1 year, 3 months ago
The real sad part about war is that it isn't like a game of baseball, basketball, nor football. The losers and winners don't come back the next day and have another game. The winners come home and the losers go home in body bags. Nobody wants a war, nobody wants to fight, even the veterans who have been trained to do it, but my goodness sake, there comes a time when you cannot let the bully on the street continue to do their evil.
Which explains why our major cities gangs have literally taken over neighborhoods. Do we have anyone living on the block with courage now or are they all hiding behind closed doors, hoping the crip, blud, incaboys, or whoever will simply pass them by. Sooner or later they are going to knock on your door. Our door was Beirut, USS Cole, WTC, 9/11. I WILL NOT cower in fear. The gangs leave our block alone. They know who lives here. They know if they accidentally break a window, it will be forgiven, but if they do it deliberately, another story.
Reply
-
-
62%
LordyLordy1 year, 3 months ago
4cprocess; You're on the right track.
I have a little more respect now for old Joe Liberman. By Golly Miss Molly, in spite of his party's pressure, he's still willing to voice his own thoughts.
You are dead right but why oh why don't some get that?
I swear some of them are brainwashed or simply too stubborn to admit they are wrong, and willing to change their thinking. My grandfather used to call it "stinking thinking?" They will be back on American soil, using American planes, attacking us again, if we continue on this cowardice track. I'm not a die in the hard Bush fan, but I'm thankful we have a President who has courage instead of a yellow stripe up his back.
Reply-
90%
questionseverything1 year, 3 months ago
so they r gonna use our own planes to attack us again?
does that mean the admin is gonna ignore the warnings of the attacks again?
on 9-11 we were used to planes being hi jacked and if every1 just did what the hi jacker wanted the plane would be re routed but eventually every1 would get home safe
those days r ovr
i would bet that the next terrorist that trys to take ovr a plane better come after the passengers with more than box cutters
Reply
-
-
-
0%
4cprocess1 year, 3 months ago
Quit it! Just quit spewing the idea that we are hated for our actions abroad.
It's not true.
We are hated based on the simple fact that the "whole" world views us as "spoiled brats". PERIOD
We "have" and "live" a lifestyle as a "whole" and what I mean by that is that "collectively", which means, include even the homeless, jobless, single mother/father, just recently fired, laid off, immigrant (whether legal or illegal) disabled and I could go on and on...but what I'm saying is that it's the "freedom of choice" and the "pursuit of happiness" is why they will ALWAYS hate us.
Get the picture?
No matter what you do.
No matter what you say.
No matter how you act.
You will always be an American.
In God We Trust
Reply-
0%
Russencrantz1 year, 3 months ago
If it's "our freedoms" that the international community hates, why do so many still want to immigrate here?
It's out political actions abroad, not our freedoms, that the majority of the world has a problem with.
Reply-
86%
4cprocess1 year, 3 months ago
Russen,
You're missing the point, It's our consumption of the world's natural resources and our "standard" of living, and freedom that they (our enemies) despise.
I didn't say that "sane" or "normal" people do not want to come here. For pete's sake, one has nothing to do with the other. Many people want to come here for that very reason.
In God We Trust
Reply -
100%
4cprocess1 year, 3 months ago
You're also missing the point that it's a matter of our National Security, whether Republicans, Democrats, Independents, or whatever are in charge that this country maintains its ability to procure the energy needs it requires to keep your friggin lights on at night, your refridge running, your office lights on, your computer running, your grandfather's dialysis machine running. Need I go on.
Reply
-
-
JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.9 Replies
-
-
-
100%
4cprocess1 year, 3 months ago
What kills me is that the "liberal" part of our establishment is in so much agreement that we "negotiate" and "compromise" with our enemies when in fact it's their very "lifestyles" that they (our enemies) DESPISE!
They are they ones that always "rally to the cause" against a govt. that has RELIGION as their basic rule of law!
Get the picture NOW!
No, their blind eyes are always turned to the fact that the real and let me repeat that, the "REAL" reason our National Defense is "threatened" is the simple fact that if these morons are left to make the decisions of how we "live" and "prosper" that ultimately the outcome will project us backward some 200-400 years!
Welcome to the original 13 colonies!
In God We Trust
Reply-
JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.
-
85%
jordan111 year, 3 months ago
What kills me is that the "liberal" part of our establishment is in so much agreement that we "negotiate" and "compromise" with our enemies when in fact it's their very "lifestyles" that they (our enemies) DESPISE!>>>>>
Nope. It's our less than diplomatic actions over decades that they 'despise.' A conservative believes in the basic evil of people, and a liberal in the basic good. A conservative considers being 'powerful' to be the definition of our place in the world, while a liberal sees cooperation & fairness as that definition. A conservative considers a liberal weak, while a liberal recognizes the weakness of character that leads to being a bully. We're never going to resolve the differences between us.
Reply-
0%
questionseverything1 year, 3 months ago
very well put except i dont consider true conservatives that way just these neo cons
Reply
-
-
-
0%
4cprocess1 year, 3 months ago
Bull S H I T!
As Colon Powell said, "if you break it, you buy it."
Well let me tell you something, President Bush didn't break it, and please have a seat for this one because you, me and all the rest of the "American public" broke this one. And it's up to ALL of us, Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green Party and all to fix this one.
You cannot blame ONE MAN!
We are all in this one together.
And it's only "together" that we'll see this one through.
In God We Trust
Reply-
100%
spkguy1 year, 3 months ago
Hey your right! After All, you all are paying for it, correct?
See US dept clock.
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.29 billion per day since September 29, 2006!
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Reply -
JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.
-
-
75%
4cprocess1 year, 3 months ago
I know and fully expect to get "flamed", "drive-by negative voted" and whatever else that can be done to a blogger here but I haven't lived more than forty years on this Earth with my eyes closed.
So do what you will but if you truly have love for this country debate me, don't deface me.
In God We Trust
Reply-
86%
gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago
You seem to be having fun debating with yourself but since in your manifold postings you have so far failed to address the topic in hand its hardly surprising that you're not evoking much response.
In God We Trust indeed - some of us - but how many reminders do we need??
The topic is the assertion that the current activity in Iraq is a training ground for terrorism..
I say it is.
What do you say?
Reply -
JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.2 Replies
-
-
-
0%
CatholicRedneck1 year, 3 months ago
In your original post, 4cprocess, you asked, "If you were the President [after 9/11] what would you do?" I'd ignore the neo-cons lusting after war with Iraq, since Iraq was never a threat to us, and I'd concentrate on hunting down al-Qaeda. I wouldn't push for the Patriot Act or do any warrantless wiretapping.
It's sad how, in another post, you say Iraq is a problem for all of us. Indeed it is. But we shouldn't listen to the jackasses who got us stuck in this quagmire in the first place. Time to put adults in charge and send the little boys with their dreams of war packing.
Reply -
0%
walden31 year, 3 months ago
iraq being turned into a training ground and recruitment vehicle for terrorists was even pointed out to dubya before he decided to engage in preemptive wars of aggression. no surprises here. i'm still trying to figure it out - is it for oil? for a FOB for american troops? for politics?
"WASHINGTON รข;; U.S. intelligence agencies warned the Bush administration before the invasion of Iraq that ousting Saddam Hussein would create a "significant risk" of sectarian strife, encourage al-Qaida attacks and open the way for Iranian interference."
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/117320.html
the guy can't even eat a pretzel or ride his bike with endangering himself what makes the lost 17 percenters think that he can lead the strongest country on earth?
Reply -
0%
Natureboy1 year, 3 months ago
Rule #1 -
Terrorism is what the other guy does.
Rule #2
Walk into a crowded cafe with a bomb and you are a terrorist - drop a bomb on a crowded cafe from the safety of your fighter jet and you are proudly serving your country.
Rule 3#
Invading military forces are always doing some sort of favor to the country they invade and occupy - democratizing, civilizing, restoring order, "peacekeeping." From the Pax Romana to the Pax Americana this has not changed.
Oddly, the occupied peoples never appreciate the great generosity of their occupiers. Perhaps they see it from a different perspective.
Reply-
70%
walden31 year, 3 months ago
nautureboy-
thanks for your thoughtful comments.
i agree with the majority of what you say. just wondering what you think. i think the major problem of iraqmire is that americans, and the rest of the world, know that it is not a just war.
so for example your #2 - when we firebombed germany during WWII for the most part people believed it to be a jsut cause and therefore supported even the air bombing of civilian centers of population. on the other hand because iraqmire is perceived as not being a just cause we think that the same acts are unjust.
so if i haven't confused you too much by now, what do you think, is it the actions themselves that are judged or the "justness" of the cause that colors our judgment of the acts?
Reply-
29%
Natureboy1 year, 3 months ago
I think the reason we persist with dichotomies line #2 is not the support for the individual war so much as plain American exceptionalism. For example, most Americans don't consider US bomber pilots terrorists even if they are known to be dropping incindiaries on civilian targets. If those resisting the US occupation had planes and did similar there would be no end to their vilification.
Similarly, although we know some US military have tortured prisoners, and some US military have massacred families, raped women AND men, etc, who are far away from us and lacked both the means and the will do do us harm, we still like to think of our soldiers as proudly and honorably defending their country.
Reply
-
-
HomeGManComment removed: User banned.
-
-
100%
SlapALib1 year, 3 months ago
Would Afghanistan not be a terrorist training ground, if the US were not in Iraq? There were terrorist training grounds somewhere when the US had troops stationed in Saudi Arabia. Seems like there will always be terrorists training somewhere while the US is in the Middle East. We certainly aren't leaving and opening up the support of our allies in the region to other parties.
Why is federalism going to work if the US leaves? Why is this Shia-Kurdish coalition Kramer speaks of going to suddenly want to work with the Sunnis, if the US leaves? Why would the jihaddist get kicked out if the US left, why would each side not take them on as soldiers in the civil war? Why are they tolerated now?
I don't see the US leaving doing anymore than allowing the civil war to escalate. And then we will have to go back to stop the inevitable charges of ethnic cleansing.
Reply -
65%
Amazing11 year, 3 months ago
If it were not for the big oil that is lusting after the oil of Iraq, there would have been no invasion and subsequent occupation. If the administration were not a neocon cabal, again, there would have been no invasion. We have endangered ourselves by this wrongheaded military campaign. We need to pull out NOW and apologize to the Iraqis, fund their rebuilding from afar and leave everybody in the neighborhood alone.
Government should be OF, BY and FOR the PEOPLE. Just how does it serve the PEOPLE of this nation to have our young men and women dying and becoming crippled? How does it serve the PEOPLE to become the most hated nation on earth? And if I were an Iraqi, I would be dang well enraged about what you had done to my home and consider joining a terrorist group myself.
We have opening a breeding ground for terrorists. We are funding it at 2 BILLION dollars a week, while our own citizens cannot return home to their storm ravaged homes that were destroyed two years ago.
Reply -
0%
not2needy1 year, 3 months ago
BushCo has put the people of the US in dire straits, and they don't care. It is now, and it has always been about the money, profit for Haliburton, and oil.
I hate to think that 9/11 could have been deliberately done for the express purpose of the persuit of oil and monetary gain, but it is looking like it more and more every day. The hard headed way Bush forges on in this war, listening to no one, saying the same things over and over, and using the same scare tactics. None of it adds up to protecting us from terrorists, it adds up in the Bush/Cheney bank accts.
Reply -
0%
LordyLordy1 year, 3 months ago
not2needy, I would not believe the BS if I were you. They think if they say it enough times it must be the truth. Anyone who is reasonable knows there is more going on behind the scenes than we know or that those who know can even tell us for security reasons alone.
But there is one thing I do agree on. Democrats and Republicans need to unite against this threat from the Muslim terrorists, a united front, not only now but in the future. Those who are beating their chests now are truly clueless of the intent of the Muslim terrorists. If you value your freedom, your security, and your peace, this is the time to rally around your flag and your country, put aside your differences, even temporarily, until they have been eradicated. They are evil, and they only see your protest as your weakness, to be exploited, and they are exploiting it.
Reply -
0%
getreal11 year, 3 months ago
ET, Over here we call it on the job training. After all they should have plenty from the money pallet that was dropped to them by our administration.
Reply -
-
0%
onlyonesecret1 year, 2 months ago
I think it's obvious that the Bush Administration hasn't even read the constitution! There is nothing they have done to protect liberty and freedom here at home, Only take it away.
I think Ron Paul needs to give them a reading assignment !!!
Reply
Submitted By:
engineer
Hi My background is Biomedical engineering with an MBA As you know from all my comments where I almost stand poli